your dollars year. that is our show. see you next week. "money" toda. have a great weekend. the willis report is next. gerri: hello, everybody, i'm gerri willis. tonight on "the willis report," scams and obamacare. attorneys general have new warnings for consumers. virginia's ag is here tonight. also the obama administration says it wants to hold people accountable for the obamacare mess. >> we want to make sure the taxpayers get their money's worth, so money as it's spent we will make sure people accountable. gerri: so far the only person fired is this single mom from florida. our legal team is here. and amazon.com has big plans, but not everybody likes what it's doing with all its billions. >> we're pretty excited about this. gerri: we're watching out for you tonight on "the willis report." ♪ ♪

gerri: we'll have all that and more but, first, our top story, where is the accountability when it comes to obamacare? where does the buck stop, who's taking responsibility? hhs secretary kathleen sebelius again today refusing to take responsibility for what has been a disastrous web site rollout. instead, she said we all need to look forward, not backward. the problem is, she's the problem, and no amount of looking forward will fix something that was destined to fail from the get go. with more on this, steve moore, editorial board member for the wall street journal. steve, it is great to have you here. to get started, i want you to hear what kathleen sebelius had to say when she was asked directly about this issue, accountability. here she is. >> i think the most important thing is fix it, and that's certainly what the president

expects, it's what i expect, and that's what we're really in the process of doing. we have had new talent in technology come in, we have new management talent, and we want it to be a smoothly-operating marketplace for every american who really needs affordable health care. it doesn't operate that way now. it's far from being optimum, and we won't stop until it is. gerri: i didn't hear the buck stops there, did you hear that, steve, in that answer? what do you make of it? >> i sure didn't. and by the way, in an earlier interview that i think was earlier this morning about which she was asked whether she might have to resign, she basically went on a tirade against the republicans. it's hard to see how the faulty rollout of this obamacare web site can be blamed on the party that had really nothing to do with it in the first place. look, i think this is a big issue of core competency, gerri.

can they pull this off. and, look, the fact that everybody's pointing fingers like abbott and costello, it gets around the whole issue of can the government ever pull this off? they said maybe in six weeks it'll be pix fixed, but i'll bet a dime to a dollar we're going to be having the same conversation six weeks from now. gerri: how long will it take? before we get off the sebelius topic, i want you to hear about who she works for. listen to this. [laughter] >> the majority of people calling for me to resign, i would say, are people who i don't work for. gerri: well, so she says i don't work for them. the majority of the people calling for me to resign, i would say, are people i don't work for. wow. i thought she worked for the american people, what did you think? >> no, gerri, we work for her. she doesn't work for us. don't you understand that? [laughter] that's the whole idea behind obamacare. that was a pretty amazing comment to make by the secretary

of hhs, but with it also, i think, it kind of expresses an arrogance in this administration that they are kind of above the people and the rulers. that's, by the way, one of the reasons i've never liked this program very much. i mean, look, let's just kind of come right down to it. it is just an example of the fact that central planning doesn't work very well. i mean, nobody could have really pulled this off. how are you going to create a health care system for 200, 250 million people? gerri: well, you say central planning, but really what was going on here, this program was so hurt, so stung, so injured by the fact that it was run by politicians who were making political decisions about the program. we're not going to show you all the prices because you'll only get mad, because the prices are high. things like that, i think, really hurt this effort. and news out tonight, a sequence of events that you need to hear about, steve, a company called qssi, one of the i.t. firms that testified just this week. you probably heard him in front of the energy and commerce committee. >> yeah, right. gerri: he was asked who is

leading this so-called tech surge, and that's what the administration is saying is going to fix all these problems, right? a tech surge. the guy said, i don't know, i haven't heard. well, 24 hours later jeff science says it's qssi that's leading the surge. and they didn't know. is anybody talking to anybody else? >> that was an incredibly embarrassing moment, gerri, there's no question about it. when the head of the company says he doesn't know he's running and the next day they say you're running it. look, could this get any worse? one other point i think i'd like to make here, let's just suspend this thing for a year. it's not ready to go. the american people are scratching their head, no idea what to do. you've got employers, by the way, that are starting to cut the health care saying, oh, you'll go into the exchanges that don't work. so this is not just a laughing matter, this is a real danger to people that they're not going to have health insurance on january 1st. gerri: i agree with you. sebelius, she's going to testify next week on wednesday in front

of the same committee we were just describing. we're going to be there, by the way -- >> it's going to be a packed room, i guarantee you. gerri: what do you want to hear her say? >> well, i want to hear her say i'm sorry and i'm responsible, and those are two things she hasn't said. but, you know, i don't know politically how she survives this. there has to be some head that rolls when you have $600 million that's down a rat hole. you have to have some accountability. remember, this was the administration that said that they're going to have record transparency, accountability and credibility. and they have none of that when it comes to their signature program. gerri: well, new headlines on the program, not 600 million, now a billion -- >> i'm already behind! [laughter] gerri: it changes every day. it's hard to keep up. steve, thanks for coming on. >> thank you, have a great weekend. gerri: you too. now we want to know what you think. here's our question tonight, who does kathleen sebelius really work for, president obama or us?

the american people? log on to gerri willis.com, vote on the right-hand side of the screen. we'll share the results at the end of tonight's show. well, you know, anytime that you have a brand new, spanking entitlement program like obamacare, one of the feds are throwing billions of dollars at it, and you'll have waste. we saw that with the web site. now comes the fraud. attorney generals around the country are warning people not to fall victim to the latest scams, and virginia's ken cucinelli is with us now. he's one of the ags warning of problems. what's happening in virginia? how are people getting scammed over obamacare? >> well, we've spotted this around the country and, of course, through the internet they can reach anywhere. and a lot of our scammers that come to us via the internet or e-mail aren't even in the country. they set up in other places. and so we've put out consumer alerts on this, we've seen it in vermont, we've seen it in illinois. so this is a concern, as you said, anytime you have a new program like this -- and i would

go farther than that, gerri. when a tornado hits oklahoma, phone calls start coming. hey, help the people in oklahoma, just give me your credit card and authorize me to run it. gerri: true. >> so, but in this case now they're gathering all your personal information. it is an identity thief's dream -- gerri: oh, it absolutely is. >> the health care web sites, and that's what we're concerned about. gerri: one i've heard about and it's consistent all over the country, people are getting phone calls, and they're told that if you give us your social security number, we'll give you the obamacare national health card. guess what? there's no national health card. it doesn't exist. >> right. gerri: this is a scam. you shouldn't pick up the phone. >> and, gerri, a simple, a simple defense -- and this is the simplest rule for folks to remember -- and older folks are usually the ones first targeted, if you don't initiate the contact, it's fake. if you don't initiate the

contact, it's fake. that's almost a guarantee. gerri: well, and here's the bottom line -- >> seen it all over the country. gerri: -- the government isn't calling people. the government is not calling you about obamacare. they're not calling me, they're not calling anybody. you have to initiate all the action on your own. it's up to you, it's on you which is one of the issues here. >> right. gerri: we talk about the phone calls, people are also being told that, you know, we'll help you sign up for obamacare, send us $100, we'll help you navigate the process because the process is broken, and people are confused, and they're worried. it's sort of a perfect petri dish for this kind of thing to happen. >> oh, it absolutely is. gerri: yeah. people are so upset. people on medicare are worried that their medicare's going to be taken away or discontinued, or their doctor's going to leave them. they're so anxious that they are ripe for this kind of scam. >> yes. and like i said, older folks tend to get targeted more in scams like this, and it's high

pressure scam. and when you've got it falling apart like it is, and i listened to you talking to steve moore, certainly this is a disaster of a rollout. it's an easy extra hook to just say, hey, we can help you get true this mess because everybody knows it's a mess. it gives it a real feel to it, and it makes it more troublesome to block and to stop. and really it would be nice if we could just pull the plug on obamacare rather than on everybody's insurance, because this is a fraud opportunity that is screaming out for lots and lots of bad guys to victimize lots and lots of people. gerri: it absolutely is. and it's happened with every program the president's rolled out to assist consumers. it always happens so you know to watch out for it. another issue that i think folks need to be aware of, look, if you're googling, enroll in obamacare to find an expert on anything and you google that and roll into obamacare, you get four million hits. four million hits. how are you supposed to know the

right place to go? >> well, and google and bing and yahoo!, they're used by the bad guys. they will buy likely words that you're going to search with so that they capture your click. and that's how this fraud process can begin. anding google, frankly, they may say otherwise, but they're not very effective at stopping that on the fly when new fraudsters pop up. and so it's -- given that so many people search that way now and find what their starting point, it's a very dangerous tool for the bad guys to use. so we've got to be very care. and, again, it's so important for people to be on guard because once you've given that information out, there's no getting it back. gerri: that's really well put. the web site is healthcare.gov, that's what it is. don't go anywhere else, you know? and remember, you may have to go a couple other places. you may have to go to your state exchange and then to an insurance brokerage as well.

so you've got to be super careful. if you want to know more about this, gerri willis.com. i wrote about it, a blog on that, you can check it out. you'll know exactly what to take a look for. attorney general cucinelli, thanks for coming on tonight. and you know what? we didn't even talk about the fact that you're running for governor in virginia. >> oh, here and there, 11 days. and obamacare is a central issue. obamacare is going to be a reference tunnel in my race. referendum in my race. gerri: thanks for coming on and taking a few minutes out of your busy day. >> blood to do it. gerri: thanks so much. well, we've got more to come this hour including reasons why you should shy away from a fight. we'll tell you how to negotiate. and next, it's not just the glitches surrounding health care ott.gov, but the lack of transparency for what was supposed to be, you remember this, the most transparent administration ever. ♪ ♪ >> one of the contractors who built the obamacare web site testified before congress today.

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you are gonna need a wingman. and my cash back keeps the party going. but my airline miles take it worldwide. [ male announcer ] it shouldn't be this hard. with creditcards.com, it's easy to search hundreds of cards and apply online. creditcards.com. gerri: obamacare may be putting your personal information at risk. if you were actually able to sign on to the web site, your info, your personal data could be hacked. that's according to security experts, it's rated led with big -- riddled with big holes. the chief technology officer, great to see you again. chris, thanks for coming on the show. i've got to tell you, you know, there's all this talk about a tech surge. i have never even heard this phrase before. is it likely to fix what's wrong with obamacare? >> yeah. i've never heard the term before, and, you know, just throwing a lot more people at a problem in software engineering

doesn't necessarily solve it. we have a phrase for this in software engineering, we say you can't have, a woman -- nine women can't have a baby in one month. so just putting more resources on it isn't going to fix it any faster. [laughter] gerri: chris, that's really smart. that's well put. the new, you know, sheriff in charge of obamacare now is saying if that they can get this thing fixed by november, by the end of the month in november. is that a possibility? because i've heard other people say you really need to rebuild the whole thing. >> yeah. when you lock at performance -- look at performance problems, performance problems are really in the inherent design, in the ark tech cur of the whole system. and a lot of times they're not just easily fixed. you can't just throw some more computers back there and all of a sudden it's running faster. from the my experience, these types of serious performance problems can take months to fix. so i know they can fix it, but meeting this deadline of november 30th or even december 15th, i'm skeptical.

gerri: so we have lots of problems, right? we have the problem with signing on and opening an account, right? you hav that problem. you have the problem that insurers are not getting the data that they need, and then you have the third problem that people aren't getting the information they need out of the site. they can't figure out how much they're on the hook for, they don't even know what their out of pocket costs are, so the problems exist at multiple levels here. it seems to me that there's lots of changes that need to be made. do you think the way the government goes about doing this i.t. programming actually works for any project? >> yeah. it seems like these really large projects that take a long amount of time are very difficult. if you look at the way most successful, you know, companies that are on the internet work, they build things slowly, and they add them incrementally over time so they can test, they can add new features and they can test. and that's been a proven way of building, you know, these large web sites. and to just build, try to get it

all done all at once, it's almost impossible. so these large projects are almost doomed to fail. gerri: one of the issues is transparency, and we talked about that a lot on this show. this president promised to be the most transparent president ever, and yet with this specific web site they refused share information about how many people were going to it, how many people were actually able to get enrolled. there's a company that typically will count up the number of visitors to a web site, and people share that information. the government said we don't want that shared. it's one of those things, one of those details that gets lost in the conversation, but it tells you something about how the administration's thinking about this site. what do you make of it? >> yeah. the site is something that, you know, they've signed up for service. they're getting that information. it actually is pretty detailed, it can show demographics, age, sex, the educational background, even the race in cases of the

people visiting the site. and i guess they don't want people to sort of understand who's coming to that site. so they want to -- i think they want to see that information for themselves first and then maybe let it out publicly. gerri: that's not the way most of silicon valley works. it's interesting to see what they're choosing to do here. chris, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. good to see you. >> sure thing, it was a pleasure. gerri: thank you. and a programming note more you, this monday we're going to be doing into call-in show, two of them, in fact, 6 and 9 p.m. eastern time on monday. now, we're going to answer your questions from e-mail, twitter, facebook, and we're going to take your phone calls. you see the number right there? again, that's monday night at 6 and 9 p.m. your calls, your comments, your questions, we want to hear from you. we know this is the biggest consumer story of at least the last year, probably longer. and when we come back, kathleen sebelius hasn't lost her job, but one obamacare call center worker has. but is the reason for firing her legal? next, we answer the question how

do you do that. we'll tell you the best way to negotiate whether it's at work or on a used car lot. stay with us. ♪ ♪ it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with ss energy.hp is help. soon, the world's most intelligent servers,

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gerri: are you tired of not getting wht you want? we'll help you negotiate your way to success coming

♪ ♪ gerri: whether at work or at the car dealership or even if you're just purchasing a flat screen tv, mastering the art of negotiation. it has an impact on your wallet and your life. here with what you need to know, an attorney who does this every

day. she's the can co-founder of she negotiates consulting and training. vicki, thanks for being here. you've got a one, two, three that i love on how to do this and how to think about negotiating that i think is great. starting with negotiating doesn't start until somebody says no. tell us about that. >> that's right. well, if someone is ready to say yes to your negotiation position, it probably means you haven't asked for enough. [laughter] a lot of people -- gerri: that's a great point. >> a lot of people, a lot of people including a lot of women are afraid to ask for a raise or a promotion or a bonus because they don't want to -- they don't know how to deal when somebody says no to them. so the first rule of negotiation is really find out what your negotiation partner wants and needs, and then sell yourself or your proposition as an answer to those desires and needs. it's really pretty easy. gerri: what do you say to women about, you know, handling the

fact that somebody is telling you no? >> usually i just ask them what it is that's standing in the way of their asking for something, and often it's usually, well, you know, i was taught in school or by my parents that i should just work hard and people would notice that i was doing a great job, and i shouldn't have to ask for anything. my generation was taught not to ask a guy out for a date. gerri: well, absolutely true. okay, so your bargaining partner will be happier if you make several concessions than if he gets what he thinks he wants. so sometimes it works out better for everybody if there's give and take and people feel like there was really bargaining and bartering going on, right? >> right. absolutely. if i come to an employer and i say i want a 5% raise and they say, done, then i think, oh, no, i could have gotten 7, i could have gotten 10. [laughter] so, yeah, people feel better when they're given the opportunity to go back and forth

and to talk about what's fair, what's right, what feels good. and this is especially important at work because you're going to be with these people next year, hopefully, and the year after that. you don't want to leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth. gerri: you say it's never about the money. >> well, it's never about money, it's about what money can buy. and often if you look underneath the money, you can find differences in what you value between your and your negotiation partner so that it's easier to trade across issues. in other words, something might be really valuable to me but low cost to you, writing off, for instance, a high movie charge on my hotel bill is an example and one that i asked once when i was unhappy with the hotel service. gerri: that's a great point. >> it was easy for them to write

off, so -- gerri: well, vicki, great tips. interesting stuff. i think, you know, it's always helpful to hear how people who are good bargainers do it. we appreciate your time tonight, thank you. >> thank you so much. gerri: coming up, a nearly 10% stock bump today for amazon, but should you invest in this online giant? and an obamacare call center worker is fired after appearing on fox news saying the program isn't working. is that legal? our panel weighs in, coming up. ♪ ♪ >> you know what the president should do? put the nsa in charge of the web site. [laughter] that way there's nothing to fill out, they already have all our information. [laughter] [applause] just put your name in, they have all of it. ♪ ♪ ♪ this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. it's not the "juggle a bunch of rotating categories" card. it's not the "sign up for rewards each quarter" card. it's the no-games, no-messing-'round, no-earning-limit-having, do-i-look-like-i'm-joking,

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gerri: all sales and no profit. amazon reporting earnings for this last quarter, and it showed that revenue soared up 24%. sales up dramatically. but they lost 41 million at the same time. yes, investors pushing shares up more than 9 percent, so what is going on? joining us now, hillary cramer, president and chief investment officer of anz capital. always good to have you. you won't let amazon gold.

why? >> the aggregate retailers around the world. anytime you want to buy products, no matter what it is, kara, cat food, carpet, mattresses, whenever, amazon is the place to go, and it tied up the exclusivity of the retailers and therefore has been able to lower the price, and in one day amazon will be able to raise their prices. gerri: i have to tell you, i think they're doing it already. nothing they have the lowest price out there. tell us why you like even though it does not have profits? >> okay. first of all, the loss of $41 million. amazon is a company that five years ago only made $20 billion. then last year's $61 billion. this is a growth project three. this quarter we are talking about growth, growth, growth. here is the catch about why amazon. globally amazon grew this quarter 15% internationally, but 30 percent domestically here in

the u.s. it is a good sign that there not even mature yet in the u.s., but that international opportunity. the cso. gerri: amazons story is often written off entirely by the insiders and technology. they do not like this, and here's why. they don't like it because it is essentially a retailer. it is like walmart. it is like margaret thatcher. she came from a family of retailers' command that is considered not interesting compared to what else you can do on the web. you think that is shortsighted. >> absolutely. retail in this case is not just the consumer it is business to business and there are margins. they are not willing to talk about a company that if compared to walmart and target and one day may exceed the sale annually of wal-mart's.

what an interesting, interesting person. a very good ceo. he has grown the company from the ground up. and at a certain point in time he decided he wanted profitability ten years ago. he had a profitable amazon. today he invests in the future. he is investing in the big performance centers and building them in areas of the country where jobs are needed, where houses are needed, there is opporunity. it creates jobs in entire towns. it is a special person busy lead the company, a tough. our place, however he will take it to the next level. gerri: he doesn't care about profitability now. thank you so much for coming on. a fascinating story. thank you so much. still to come, my "2 cents more" . next, find out how to get the most bang for your buck when you

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♪ gerri: house flipping becoming fashionable again. this time it is high rol

♪ gerri: house flipping was out of fashion during the recession. the market is on fire and flippers are back, but this time the game is changed, and properties and more investors turning a big payoff. big bucks to be had. here to weigh in, personal

finance expert, very gibbons. >> i thought it was over. i thought we had the big boom in the housing market, and then it stopped. >> internationally shipping -- flipping is down. in the high-end market is up. i mean, look at these properties between two and 5 million. flipping is up 350%. there is money to be made obviously. anytime you see a speck in home prices anyway, considerably over the past eight months regardless of the fact that there are coming off of lows there will be this type of activity. more investors are willing to assume the risk specifically because the upside is a substantial. gerri: shown interesting numbers. 34 percent among homes, $750,000 over 42 percent among homes, one to 2 million. these are big numbers and there is a lot of money to be made. you say this is not a paint job and sweeping up the porch. >> they are bringing in entire teams to get the arms in the

kind of condition that the high-end buyers want, the floors, the layout. the high end buyer wants a unique property. use, though bright light of, boutique-like closet's like mariah carey. have you seen her closets? gerri: i have not. >> they want these type of amenities. they're bringing in teams that cater specifically to what the high-end buyers want. gerri: they go and do a whole makeover. geographically. >> most of the activity we are seeing in the higher-end market specifically. the five markets, the new york market and the california coast. l.a., san francisco. that was a lot of distressed properties. that game has definitely changed. a lot less inventory. a lot less opportunity. gerri: how much money are people making? >> quite a bit. naturally in making 50, $505,000 as of a little bit. they have pushed the average up, but if you're looking

specifically at the high end, much more than half. more than four times the national average. $260,000. gerri: wow. >> but you have to go and the right market and know the market and have the buyer ready to jump in. probably not as easy as i may be making it sound, but there is definitely opportunity for. gerri: the risks are so much bigger because your investment. >> your investment is much larger but they're willing to actually take this on. they know that the buyer is there, feeling more confident about the recovery in general. the opportunity is there, and want to get in. gerri: financing? >> all cash, and interestingly enough the buyers are all cash, too. foreign buyers and getting into bidding wars. going in and investors are going in and buying in a million-dollar home, but in $200,000 selling it for closer to million. not uncommon. gerri: the lenders are just sitting on that hands. thank you for coming in. a really interesting conversation.

thank you so much. well, there is more good news for homeowners. it seems to be easier to get a more is these days. according to the more its tractor -- tracker elie made that average loan to get a home loan was seven. 25%. some home buyers cannot seem to catch a break. depending on the city you live in our want to live in, the cities from suit are becoming less affordable is tonight's top five. number five, baltimore. close said the sea. home prices have been on the rise. these sums are 16 percent less supportable the last year. they closed friday coming back with a vengeance. 64 percent lower. and number three, l.a., los angeles, the median price, for under $70,000, up 40 grand in just four months. that makes home 70 percent less

affordable. number two, sacramento, california. as prices continue to rise, bread moves into the capitol city in a population blitzes' making homes 19% less affordable. the number one city where homes are less affordable, detroit. despite the city being in dire financial straits, homes in the motor city are 28 percent less affordable that last year, mostly because of the resurgence of the auto industry. a big surprise there. we will be right back with my "2 cents more," and the answer to our question of the day, who does kathleen sebelius work for? you tell us. ♪ >> still having trouble signing up for obamacare because the website is totally screwed up, and the white house is not happy about it either. now they're saying that they want website to be completely fixed by thanksgiving. [laughter]

the tech guys trying to fix it, yeah, i want a girlfriend, but guess what, eight happening, body. ♪ thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above.

we're not simply saluting history... we're making it.

>> aig just secretary sebelius is fighting back at republicans calling for her resignation that she does not work for them here is your posting. she says she works for obama but she is paid by us. >> who does she work for? her salary comes from taxpayers. unbelievable. 26 percent said the president is 74 percent said the american people. log on for our question every weekday. here is some of your e-mail's.

we love hearing from you send me an e-mail. do you remember this saying the buck stops here this was a sign of harry truman's desk to keep in mind as the obamacare exchange continues to implode. i keep asking myself whose fault is this? where does this stop? this the ministry should is not taking responsibility the president in the rose garden said no one is a greeting he was about the problem. that is far from of the occult blood vessels like a victim then hhs secretary sebelius said the people

calling for her resignation are not the people that she works for. here is the story madam secretary, you work for us. she describes the changes as not optimal. that is that. it is time for the administration to stand up and take responsibility. the president and his cabinet tried to fundamentally change the ways they receive health care. they have cause dislocation and turmoil. more people have lost coverage been under the new program that have been ruled obamacare is a mistake. face it. the best way is to abolish the program and ended. coming up and monday we have the call-in show answer your questions at 6:00 gannett:00 p.m. eastern we want to hear from the we are reading all your e-mail's. think you for joining us.

have a good night don't forget on monday we want to hear from you. liberals on capitol hill and the national media are beginning to awaken to the nightmare that is obama care and they are beginning to place responsibility directly on the president on the white house. and the white house may have much more, much worse to deal with. i'm lou dobbs. good evening, everybody. obama care is failing. and that failure goes well beyond the disastrous website health care.gov. the president's usual allies in congress and in the national liberal media are beginning